Mannheim City: Threatening to sue to Join Twitter
When you first signed up for a social media account, such as Twitter or Facebook, you probably thought it would be a cool way to keep in contact with friends, classmates, colleagues, etc. But did you ever imagine that it would result in you getting sued? Neither did we, yet this is the position that the co-Founder of Mikogo now finds himself in.
How it started:
In 2007, Mark Zondler registered a Twitter account: http://twitter.com/mannheim. Mark had plans to use this account as Mikogo was launched in 2007 and our company is based in Mannheim, Germany.
Introducing the City of Mannheim, their Legal Team and their Fail
Mark has now received a letter via registered mail from the City of Mannheim, which says that he must sign the letter and give up the Twitter account, or suffer the full force of a city’s legal team as they try to drag our a**es through the courts.
Are they serious?
But how can they do this? Just because they are a city (with no doubt an expensive and deadly legal team) and we are only a small private company, does not give them the right to push their weight around like this and threaten us.
Listen up City of Mannheim – we will not go down quietly!
The Twitter Mannheim account has never been used in a negative way, nor did we ever pretend to in fact be the City of Mannheim. Mark registered the account fair and square, just as any user would have done to get their personal Twitter account. So why does the City of Mannheim think they can flex their muscles like this? In my opinion, they could use another Twitter name, such as “city_mannheim”.
What does this mean for social media and you?
There are many other Twitter users who have accounts named after famous cities. And what about everyone else on the Web who has a blog, email address, or Facebook fan page that includes a city or famous location name? There are even people in Germany with Mannheim as a surname. Can they also expect a cease and desist order?
Well, we say NO! We might be a small private entity, but we are far from trembling in our boots. Quite the opposite – instead we are calling out the City of Mannheim as they are the ones who initiated this epic FAIL and soon they will experience the true power of social media and teh interweb!
This is not just to save our own skins, because I’m sure that there are many private individuals who have found themselves in a similar situation, but perhaps did not react like we will. So for their sake and ours, this blog post is us making a stand as we feel the City of Mannheim breathing down our necks and into our wallets.
Would you let Mannheim walk all over you?
I can only assume that the good people at the City of Mannheim actually expect us to roll over and die. Well, the reality is not quite that. Instead we are putting it to the people of teh Interweb.
Are they allowed to do this? Are the Goliaths of this world allowed to rule the Internet and social media, or will the Davids out there stand up for themselves?
If you think the City of Mannheim has a point, then where does it end? How far is too far?
Also consider this: the City of Mannheim never contacted Mark directly to enquire about the Twitter account. Instead first contact was this cease and desist order threatening legal action. We are a taxpaying company of Mannheim, yet this is how they treat us. Is this how you expect to be treated as a taxpayer, and hence a city customer?
Sounds like an unusual way to go about getting a username. Perhaps a better way forward would be for the town to offer some financial reward for giving up the name, as I’m sure Mark can live with out it and easily choose a new one? As Mark has less than 100 followers, re-direction would not be a major hassle. Just don’t think the legal (we are bigger, so give us what we want) method is a collaborative approach. Sounds like the town needs to re-think its strategy. My advice, take legal advice. Will be an interesting case.
I don’t think that anyone has a legal right to a twitter account no matter what the name. So long as you are not passing yourself off as the city, I can’t see how they have a leg to stand on. I could register Mikogo and so long as I wasn’t planning on impersonating the company would have every right to do so.
I agree with Paul – see if they will give you a financial incentive to give up the name – then everyone wins.
I think it’s great that you have been public about this. This sort of action deserves to have some public light.
This is utterly ridiculous !
My Suggestion: Take advice from a lawyer and give a strong reply back.
Even if Mark has to give up the twitter name, don’t let it go easily.
All the Best to Mark.
Why not just edit the name to maybe: twitter.com mark in mannheim.
F__k em!
Good for you for standing up. It’s easy to just give in but that’s not any fun. However, what bearing does that twitter name have on you (business or personal). Just seems like where you live.
Nissan motors tried the same thing and failed, read the whole story at http://www.nissan.com
The problem is that people have to fight back, more power to you guys. Don’t buy Nissan cars.
You are right! Do not give up!
Mikogo need to think about moving out of Mannheim. Take your taxpaying company and go the next town. Then setup new Twitter account, Mikgo_Not_In_Mannhein. Great press for the city. Mark keep up the fight. The city as a point but to start with legal action is wrong.
You should give up the name and use one that is relevant to you and your company. The city’s claim is reasonable and you know it. You’re just being selfish.
We have been using Mikogo for our online meetings. Being a small company our self I understand what it takes to start and make progress. Mikogo team is doing a great job and diverting their focus this way is not at all good. Even if the city wants Mark to give up this name then this is not the way to ask for this. Mikogo sitting in Mannheim city is bringing fame to that city, the city should respect this and sort this out amicably.
All the best to you guys
I’m not familiar with Germany’s laws but I would say fight if you can. Best of luck!
I think you should send a Cease and Desist order to the City of Mannheim telling them they have to change the name of their city so they don’t misrepresent your Twitter account.
Does this mean I can start using Mikogo as my Twitter name then?
Okay they could have handled it better, but you seem to be making a mountain out of a molehill…
PROPS FROM PORTUGAL! LONG LIVE WRITEN AND SPOKEN FREEDOM!
There is no international law about usage of city names. so screw them.
We wont go back to 1940!
Heck, after winning this ridiculous suit, I’d move out of Mannheim so they can’t have your tax dollars anymore either.
Well, seeing that Mannheim acts this way, we are changing our vacation plans to EXCLUDE Mannheim for our May trip. Too bad. That was 4 days of our dollars for hotels, meals, etc. that Mannheim will now miss out on. This is bad press for Mannheim, and they should wake up. Shame on you, City of Mannheim!
This is really absurd. Dont allow them to do it.
Shame on you …. The City of Mannheim …
It is unbelievable that communities and municipalities cannot to at least contact a tax payer to inquire and negotiate a course of action without setting up some legal action.
Unbelievable…and shame on you.
If they wanted the name so badly, they should have thought to register it first. You can offer to mention on your twitter page where you live and the name for the city. Other than that, if they don’t play nice, counter sue them for recovery of defense expenses and publicize the hell out of it. Embarrassment often stops politicians.
Good luck and THANKS for Mikogo. We couldn’t live without it.
I don’t think they can do anything. If they can do anything than I am worried now about whole legal system which is protecting the common person. Don’t give up. If they are that much conscious that there name should not be used than they should be the one who should go on all networking websites and register there name. What would be there step if you would have registered for that account and would have put all fake details.
In fact I am going to go on major networking websites and will create with same name with all fake details..Lets see what they can do than
Although I don’t utilize this medium myself. Unless this city is trademarked, I don’t see what the big deal is. So I guess Mannheim Steamroller is immune to this?
Seems to me this is similar to people using or parking domain names to which they have no real right, where the law has been coming down in favour of the brand owner, or person with that name.
However, I note that http://www.mannheim.com/ doesn’t appear to be owned by mannheim city, though http://www.mannheim.de/ is.
Why do they have any more right to http://twitter.com/mannheim than anyone or anything listed in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mannheim_%28disambiguation%29
I am sure there is an amicable resolution though
http://twitter.com/mannheimcity, and http://twitter.com/mikogoinmannheim being obvious ways to avoid clashing
Well what can you say? It’s a dog eat dog world and it’s a shame the City Of Mannheim hadn’t heard of Twitter before Mark did, tough luck guys.
It’s no different to them finding out http://www.cityofmannheim.com has already been taken, they wouldn’t be entitled to a legal right over a twitter account, just like they wouldn’t have for a website they’ve never bought/registered.
I’d propose a counter offer to sell it to them for a ridiculous amount of money.
Fight it all the way guys! I can’t see they have a leg to stand on.
Bring it on, baby! Let them bring on the lawsuit. What can they do, sue you for damages? I think not. I agree with the first poster — they could have just offered some deal that would have made them happy by getting the name, and you happy by offering you something of value.
A company I’m with now is actually in the same situation — somebody is using a name we want for a youtube channel. We are going to just ask him — and pay him if necessary. But court? Never. Tell them to go pound sand!
That’s just ridiculous… even if i don’t know why Mark choosed such a twitter account name.
Two comments:
1) No way the city has the right to take the name unless they have trademark on the name. You should definitely fight!… really, think about how many artist use the name of New York in their music… from Sinatra to Jay-Z…. do they pay NY royalty? Don’t think so…
2) David on January 22, 2010 at 4:46 pm – is probably one of the city’s lawyers… or a pushover. The city’s claim is anything but reasonable.
Interesting turn of events; the city may be protecting a copyright that it has on its name, but I’d be very interested in seeing what actions they have taken against Mannheim Steamroller over the commercial use of their name on their record albums. Did they even contact that group? I echo the suggestion that you pull up stakes and move the company to another town that might be more appreciative of your presence and the publicity garnered from your spreading their name around. An interesting spin might be to contact the Mannheim Steamroller group and have them add to the pressure being put on the city; steamroller seems very appropriate in this situation, in several ways…
I don’t think given the circumstances on this I would fight it. I’d make it a big ribbon cutting ceremony and presentation kind of like getting the key to the city. Instead your going to reverse it and give the twitter account to the city. If I registered the city I live in, I would absolutely assume at some point they would come knocking on my door. This name doesn’t do anything to promote mikogo and while the controversy will most certainly bring a few extra clicks (which is why I am here today) it isn’t worth any negative public image.
Send a nice little note back that 30 days from today you are going to have a social media fair in Mannheim sponsored by the city to cover all things social media and help bring updates to new technology showcasing how all of this helps the city, and the people who live there. In turn during the media fair you will personally turn over the new official city twitter account. Make a big as deal about this as possible but bring it to light that you are “the good guy” and your just doing your part as a good responsible citizen. I think it will go a long way vs wasting our time fighting such a trivial name that does nothing to promote yourself or business..
What is the crime rate of the City of Mannheim? Maybe Mikogo should sue the City of Mannheim for tarnishing the reputation of Mikogo’s twitter account.
WOW!
I don’t think they have a leg to stand on because you haven’t impersonated or made out to be Mannheim city. Infact could Mannheim be a surname or a brand name? if so this adds to your case.
I’d use this for as much PR as you can get as this is the typical global story that many news rooms would pick up on..do you remember the Stephen Fry story?
Once you have got 5000 new Twitter followers and 1000 new Mikago users you can ask them for a few $$$$ dollars for the name as this would actually save them money on the legal.
Mannheim council are clearly wasting their residents’ tax money on ridiculous cases like this. Amicable solutions can be made i’m sure. In fact this actually reminds me of how much i detest lawyers and general legal idiots.
Have you asked Twitter what their terms of use is for this case? I’d imagine if they are their own entity, it’s finally up to them how their website is used and what guides account names. In the US, a fair offer is to be made on any buyout attempts on public entities such as a domain name. If they sue, generally that would be the finding that in addition to your legal fees they would also need to pay you a fair market buyout on the name. This assumes twitter is even obligated (being a US based company German law is not the governing authority in this case — it becomes an internation commercial matter). Of course if there are “revenge” laws in Germany which hinder your company in the event they can’t control another, that’s a whole other story.
Simple solution: Reserve a name that reflects Mikogo and not the city it’s based in, it’s better for your marketing anyway, and it’ll eleviate these troubles. Honestley I would not have assumed mannheim would have been the name to search for if I was looking for Mikogo on Twitter. Then for your emotional outlet just let your business owners know how much the city of Mannheim supports small business owners there. As for my my vote, my family and I will not visit the place, so they lost some tourism money. We’ll go spend it in Frankfurt in honor of Mikogo.
Counter sue them and ask for expenses and money for time spent in these procedure. Your company is doing great and myself I am using your product. Don’t give up
I just registered “cityofmannheim” with twitter. I will give you the rights to this account upon request, and the city can pay you or even pay me two thousand dollars for the rights to that account. They can quit whining, and find a different name!
This utterly absurd. Like people say, Social networking is meant to be social, not legal.
If there was a problem with the username, what were Twitter Admins / folks @ the local Admin of Mannheim doing?
And since Mark created the account in 2007. Itz crazy and we all stand by Mikogo in this!
Cheers!
Anil Mahadev
Mikogo User
I say we group together some funds to take out an ad in a Mannheim newspaper. If I can make a generalization about Germans it would be they get upset about things like their Municipal Gov planning on going to court over a Twitter account. A great example of Government itching to throw away money.
For the other David above who posted – give up the name, and the cities claim is reasonable. What kind of weed have you been smoking!? Have you totally lost your backbone and slither around like a worm. There is no way he should give it up without getting legal advice. What is the harm in having the name as it is? Cities write all kinds of ordinances. Many are illegal, but the average citizen doesn’t have the money to fight city government. The city can take money from everyone else to fight you or me, but we sure don’t have the same source of income gathering. If you don’t want to spend the money fighting, check on moving the company out of the city and giving someone else your tax dollars.
Unless they have the name trademarked, they do not have a claim on it. I can see why they might want it, but it is not an unusual name and they should not expect it to wait there unused. They missed the opportunity to sign up for it, just like anyone else could have. If they really wanted it, they should have signed up for it quicker. Many people use their Surname, and I know two people with this name. Legal action is absurd, unless they have a trademark. They could easily pick another name, close but different, or they could offer to purchase it. Domain names are sold everyday for this very reason, and those are much more important than a username. It is very sad to see legal action taken as a first step to resolve this issue.
Let’s try talking first, “Hey, we saw that you have the username XYZ. We were hoping to use that name since it matches our city name and other accounts we have. It would really help us, could we have it? A modest fee could be arranged; perhaps the legal costs we’d incur if we had sued you instead of talking like educated and civil representatives of the city in which you pay taxes and bring revenue and employment in this time of financial troubles.”
Who is going to start to ‘model’ a way of resolving these issues in a more civil manner? Should we wait for someone else? or should we think about ways in which people can talk of their concerns?
Does the holder of a trademark have no moral rights to that name? If I were to build an online identity as “John Smith”, would it not be considered a form of identity theft? Does every holder of a trademark need to scan ALL social networking sites (and all NEW sites) to hurry in and establish their name as an account? That seems unreasonable.
The high road here would be for the city to thank Mark for reserving this name, and offer to compensate him for re-establishing a new name, and for Mark to get some kudos as a good citizen of a beloved city.
This is a matter for civic discourse, not for lawyers.
Go for it. The city has no right to threaten you. In fact, you should sue them for harassment. Although, it might be the case that the city is mistaking you for a “common squatter”. Best clear the air about things, and your intentions about not bowing out. Things might fizzle, instead of blowing out of proportions. (PS. And you might get offered a financial incentive for abdication of the account)
I would highly recommend that Mannheim discover a twitter name that is available and change the name of their F***ing city to match their twitter account.
In 2007 Twitter was a small little technical distraction used by few.
As soon as it became popular 2008 and ubiquitous 2009 the City of Mannheim found out too late that “Mannheim” was gone. Most 10 letter dictionary words and placenames were gone by mid 2009 …because twitter was suddenly ubiquitous. Same was all 3 and 4 letter combination .coms were gone in late 1999 ….abc.com and abcd.com etc.
Of course for a personal account Mannheim is very good, it is a play that means “man at home” or “man in his home” or “man from home” in English and therefore it was clearly a personal and not a work twitter for the founder of mikogo ….and not mikogo the company he founded.
It would mean a twitter originating from Mannheim the place not on behalf of Mannheim the lazy stupid bureaucracy that cannot keep ice off its streets in winter. Should that not be Kreis Mannheim or Stadt Mannheim or Mannheimer Stadt to give it its proper title anyway ????
Du Dumme Dumme Dumme DrekBeamter du…..if you will pardon my ever faulty German.
I agree with Dean Hoover – send them a cease and desist! I am not familiar with German law and would suggest that since Twitter is not based in Germany it wouldn’t apply anyway.
How about forgetting the moral outrage and setting an example of sensible behaviour, unlike the city of Mannheim? The pricey lawyers used by the big bad guys are praying you fight back – that’s what keeps their fees rolling in – in this case they’ll be paid by Mark and the other taxpayers of Mannheim. Does it hurt Mark to give the name up? After all the city is called Mannheim, and Mark isn’t. And if Mark wanted to change the city’s behavior in a constructive manner, he could run for office.
First of all, Twitter is overrated anyway! So what is it that they think they can gain in the first place by using @mannheim instead of @cityofmannheim?
Second, if they want it that bad it must be of value to them. And as with anything of value, you pay for it! So if the city really wants it so bad they feel they need to strong arm it from someone, I would make them pay for it. Mostly to say you are grossly offended by this tactic and don’t appreciate being treated this way.
Furthermore, I think this is very poor management of city resources. Is this really how they do things there? Note to self: STAY AWAY FROM MANNHEIM!
What a joke! Desperate wankers prolly don’t even know how Twitter works! Sorry but this just rubs me way wrong!
We love your service though! Keep up the great work.
HASN’T THE WORLD ENOUGH BULLIES. HASN’T POLITICS LEARNED THEY CAN’T BULLY EVERYONE.
Since the name Mannheim hasn’t been copyrighted by the city I don”t know where they
can impose any violation, and isn’t it just plain silly to come at anyone with a club when most people would listen better to a pen. If the city can afford the attorneys they could also afford to offer a reasonable resolution. The good press everyone could get would be to every ones advantage. Maybe even get the city a couple of tourists just to see the good guys who try to make a more peaceful world.
I am pretty sure this falls under US Laws since Twitter is based out the U.S. – this is similar to .com domains. From my previous legal issue with some domains, I found that any US company or trademark automatically supersedes anyone’s claim to a domain .com and a twitter account is similar.
for example if you register the domain abctools.com – if there is a corporation operating in the U.S. and someone own the trademark of ABC Tools or ABCTools they will easily win your domain.
for twitter accounts – I would recommend some searches on this matter to find some legal precedence.
do you own the company name inc? or have the trademark? if so – it should be safe – none the less if you do have either of the two options I would send a letter to Twitter to ensure your twitter account doesn’t have problems since your in the clear.
good luck, keep us update.
Patrick
I had a coworker that owned “www.sting.com” for many years. He was a big-time gamer and that was his online name. When Gordon Matthew Sumner (aka Sting) offered to buy it from him, he refused as he just liked the name. Well, Sting sued and it ended up in InterNIC arbitration. Interestingly, the coworker won. He was able to prove he used the name actively for 5 years and so Gordon did not have a leg to stand on.
This is the exact same situation as far as I’m concerned. German law cannot govern a worldwide community. Please stick to your guns and show them how the new world order works.
Oh, please post contact information for the Mannheim attorneys so that we all can tell them, directly, just what we think of their silly lawsuit.
Lastly, what would they have done if your last name was “Mannheim”? Make you legally change it?
Thanks for sharing this with us.
Hi there!
I am not lawyer, nor a judge. However: I just read the BGB§12 as well as looked through some cases where it has been interpreted and even asked a friend who’s studying “Jura”. I came to the conclusion, that the BGB§12 rather applies to the domain names.
Besides: twitter isn’t the denic. It’s actually just some account at some other company – just imagine yourself having an account on last.fm called “Mannheim” – in my opinion this is almost the same.
(source: http://dejure.org/gesetze/BGB/12.html)
But if Mannheim insists on this, draw consequences. Move to somewhere else or start a new twitter account. It’s really sad (but pretty common in Germany nowadays) that if government officials don’t know what to do in order to actually at least SEEM to work at work, they start doing random things just to prove they work at all – without even thinking about possible consequences. One consequence would be to move and to ask the co-workers whether they want to keep their job and move along or just find new workers.
However: it’s also kinda bad to punish the employees as well as possible customers, because in the end the officials – who started this crap – won’t suffer any damage at all (since it’s not their money they might be missing and not their family who might suffer because of the loss of work). It’s a general problem.
I’d highly suggest to visit a lawyer and – if there is a (good) chance to win (which there might be) – file a lawsuit against Mannheim. Further – if you’d win – file another suit to get additional fine (Bußgeld) for all the trouble they have caused.
It’s sad, that those stupid officials whield the money of all the tax payers … but I think you should defend yourself and once you win, take as much additionally as you can – greed is a bad habbit, I know that, but it’s something that might help them learn that they’re doing wrong.
I wish you all the best! Keep up the great work – Mikogo is one of my favorite programs and I’ve used it for quite some time to help my brother or a friend of mine. All the best to you guys!
I don’t know German law, but if this case came up in the States, I don’t think they would have a prayer of winning. Be grateful the issue is not about a domain name as that is much more arbitrary thanks to ICANN.
Have you thought of setting up a “Legal Defense Fund”? It would be pretty easy with Paypal and I think an awful lot of people would be willing to chip in a few bucks to help.
I wouldn’t compromise in any way on this. Tell them to “go piss up a rope”
Good luck!
This is absolutely bonkers.
Am I going to get sued for beating someone else to my twitter account name? No! If this actually does get to court, surely it’ll be laughed straight back out again.
I’m pretty sure you can’t copyright a City name!
Shouldn’t they be spending this time and effort on reducing carbon emmisions or lowering crime. Nope, lets sue some bloke because he’s using our name. Feck off!
It’s a free speech issue, clear and simple. Additionally, they have legal problems enforcing such a claim.
1) Twitter is a global service, not solely German. Stadt Mannheim is only able to press this claim because the owner of the Twitter account is a German national. They would be out of luck were the owner, say, American.
2) Mannheim is also a fairly common surname and so could easily be used by anyone who wanted a personal account.
3) It is well within an individual’s rights to register a name like this to use to comment, even critically, on the city and it’s politics, economy etc.
It would be different if you had tried to register mannheim.ci.de or some other construct specifically reserved for government entities. Twitter is a commercial service, not a quasi governmental agency. They have no right to constrain either Twitter’s business or an individual’s use of it for legal purposes.
If they persist, I’d say transfer the account to a foreign user and let them attempt to retrieve the account from there.
Perhaps you should suggest that if they would like to re-name the city of Mannheim, they are welcome to call it ‘Mikogo’
They are not serious. They were looking for an assignment to practice writing persuasive letters using Word. In any case, if my great grandparent was named Mannheim and this is a family name, I can use this name too in twitter and other social websites and no one has a right to take me to court over it. It like me suing someone who uses John as their username. Whoever signs up first takes the name. Period!
Hello Mark,
don’t back up – imo the city of Mannheim has no right at all for any username on the web.
Good luck!
Fight them all the way…get some legal advise first then if they don’t have a leg to stand on contact local radio station, local newspapers, etc…
There are laws(?) for registering domains that match company trademark names, but not a general name and I can’t believe there are any laws banning usernames for a web site…I wonder how much it would be to register “Mannheim” as a tradmark for your company then you can sue them for use of the trademark lol
I’m sure you have done some advertising for the city by registering that name for over 2 years so you have done them a favour by bringing in trade…
A city needing twitter? Shouldn’t they be focused on their job? Shouldn’t they be giving out their URL rather than their twitter name? … sounds like a very “Look at me” kind of crowd.
Hey… City of Mannheim, Screw!
Good and bad, everyone has the right to sue anyone over anything as long as it not specific abuse of the court system. I am very familiar with this concept as I was recently the victim of an almost identical situation 6 months ago. The good in this is that it ensures that anyone of us can sue if we have a legitimate problem against another. The bad in this is it also takes away the common sense individuals should be practicing, or in the very least, trusting in the good nature of individuals and make an attempt at the right thing. If Mannheim has legally protected its name, then they may very well have a legal case since you are in the city of Mannheim and may be subject to those laws. I’m not saying don’t fight, because I did and won. I’m saying take a good look at your situation before you make a decision. How much money is this worth “for principle”? You could let it go now and suffer nothing except anger at how “wrong” the legal system is, or you could stay and fight the good fight. In the end, what-ever choice you come to will not undo the damage that has already been done. If you stay and fight and lose, you will be just as angry, but broke. However, if you stay and fight and win; your anger will remain, but be offset with the comfort of a victory. Last, I love the idea of “teaching them a lesson”, however, it is my experience that people that do **business** in this manner don’t learn lessons…which is why you are getting sued; they simply don’t care. Good luck with your decision and you have my support regardless of which path you take.
Mark,
ONE word Traffic Traffic Traffic
take the advice of Daniel and a few others GET THE %$*& PUBLICITY !!
YOU need to make this a #hasg tag and then tweet baby tweet… and it will become a trending topic on twitter …those that brought suit against you may have no choice but to dismiss this frivolous bull$hit of a case due to the embarrassment.
GET THE DAMN PUBLICITY !!
Your Niche is free Traffic
I don’t get it as to why is this name so important to the city? First off, a domain that is .com can be anything, if it’s a city thing or a legal govt. site, then it ends with .gov to begin with. Ask the city’s legal system to pick up the books on cyberlaw as declared and accepted by even the UN to get more information on HOW or WHY there are different IP Classes, or Domain names.
Secondly, as far as the cyber laws are concerned, the city would have to go by the law that applies to this kind of criminal subject, AGAIN that is from the UN Declared standards of Internationally accepted Cyber laws. In addition, cyberlaws that are local to a city or a govt, can ONLY be extensions that MUST NOT contradict the Cyber law guidelines laid out by the UN and others.
Thirdly, you can always contact Microsoft as they were the first ones to come up with the 3 category IP classification. And I bet you, in this case Microsoft will help you guys through and through. Secondly, any computer or internet savvy person these days KNOWS what domains mean what. Unless something’s .GOV…..it is NOT considered official government website, just like the .EDU for Education domain.
Guys, seriously, I don’t even think you need a lawyer, all you need is common sense, and you need to tell these guys who is worth WHAT! You are an internet based community, sure you guys make money, so you are a .COM for Commercial website, you guys pay your taxes when you register for this or renew your license every year.
Finally, if the city has such an issue with your website, then ask them to block the site, so that people within Germany can’t access it. (ofcourse they’ll find a way around it)! What’s more so is: you can always see where this website is registered? Whom do you guys pay to get this website! Whichever country that hosting company is residing in, the city should file a lawsuit against that hosting company to SELL this domain and take money each year from it. Secondly, they’ll have to sue the country for authorizing the hosting company to be in existence as a legal entity. And well all I can say is: Good luck to the city for that!
In anycase, I’ve presented my views on this, they don’t have SQUAT on you guys. Anyway the scenario presents, the answer’s in there! FREEDOM of information can NOT be restricted or dictated!
It seems that you got the name registered pretty fair and square, abiding by all the laws. It is really weird that the German city even thought suing you would be a good idea for a twitter account
The city fathers have to register the city name as being extraordinarily unique, to lay claim to its unrepeatable title i.e champagne etc. Their desist action will be by people who have little else in their lives and hope, to gain some ‘power’ by connecting themselves to a name. Either ignore such sillyness or allow them to make fools of themselves in the wider world.
Seriously though, what does the city of Mannheim need to twat about?
Mark,
I feel your surprise and anugisuh.
I do not know German copyright law.
In the US, I would say unless you copyrighted and or trademarked the name, then take it down immediately.
Mikoogo has a good corproate product, global! and that name must not be tarnished….which it is by copyright infrinegment.
I see a couple options….one, is you can help the City by showing them how to monetize their name..they allow you use of the name, you agree to keep corproate headquarters in Mannheim…..they need the jobs you will create. Yours is the perfect investment for a mid european city…..you are a gold mine for them. Also, you seem to have the smarts to be able to show them other ways their name can be positively spread around….that free expsoure is worth MILLIONS of duesch marks MILLIONS MILLIONS because of who is looking at the city name, globally.
But after you read German copyright law…..then…take the name chnage…..I am battling aganist a much bigger company which has improperly used my company name in their website for years…when I prevail.,…they will have to pay a huge sum just because of arrogance…. I would defned you vigrously if you found someone had purloined your imaginative company moniker…
Good luck…
Larry
Leave the little guy alone. This is rediculous.
Someone call the Waaa ambulance. You got the name before they did. SO NOW the want it. There is plenty of dot com disputes that will help you defend this.
HELLO, Listen up City Of Mannheim public relations department: it would have been smarter for the city to buy it from him and help promote Mikogo as well.
Mikogo provides a free service to business and the public for free!
What has your rich vacation tourist town (that we will now miss) in 2011 when we travel to my wifes homeland done for the little guy lately?
i have nothing more to say but want to cast my vote in your favor.
I am going to get a twitter account mikogo1. Will you sue me? City of Mannheim must be suit happy and money hungry with their Attorneys. They are a big joke!! Daniel T. Cruz
These people are sad and probably have nothing better to do than flex their corporate action muscles. Although I agree in principle that there is nothing wrong with your choice of twitter name, why not consider scrapping it and setting up a new one with the name Mikogo. Due to the take-up and use of Mikogo, your excellent product, more people have heard of Mikogo than they have of Mannheim!
S.
Ridiculous! Hang in there.
If my name was Walmart, I guess they could make me change it to something else if this Mannheim thang became precedent!
Hmm… looks like some slicklip lawyer convinced the City to donate some of their cash to the legal system… nothing more as this is stupidity at it’s finest !
Phil
I think this is totally ridiculous.
There is nothing wrong in someone using any available name to create a social network account.
Mikogo has been for the time that I have a member, supportive and ethical and everything they have done.
The city should have no claim to the name if they did not have it before you. It is like buying a domain names.
We are 100% behind you.
You have done nothing wrong. Stand for your right.
I’m not at all fond of bullies…..especially governmental ones. That said, I personally don’t know that I’d take on a government with deep pockets to pursue their little crusade to liberate the name of their fair city from your “evil” clutches….(just kidding btw)
I guess it boils down to how strong on your principles on the matter…..
I’m also just curious why you wouldn’t have chosen to use http://twitter.com/mikogo
?????
A. you don’t have to give up the name if you don’t want to, name twitter as a co-defendent and let them face their lawyers too (they gave the name) that will shake them.
B. Micogo in Mannheim seems better to me, so find out how much they will probably spend taking this to court and offer to sell them the name for that amount, redirect and go on a cruse on them. That’s my advice.
Either way good for you, don’t just roll over for the bureaucrat bullies!
I understand how you may feel but leave your emotions to one side and focus on your business that is excellent and should not be put at risk. Do a deal and get the best price you can. Invest the money in your business and move on to even greater success.
I look forward to the growing succes of Mikogo – a great organization.
Ian
I can’t see how they can legally pursue this route. A business can start up some social website and someone can register with any name they please. People register coveted web domain names all the time for ransom from other people and companies and nothing happens. It sounds like the city is trying to go cheap rather than show the money.
Another example of the strange behavior that affects public officials when they are not responsible for their actions and not spending their own money.
In a perfect world it would be wonderful to have the time and resources to teach all the strange politicians a lesson in accountability.
You need to make a decision whether this battle is worth the cost of your time and money to attempt to right an obvious idiotic wrong. The cost/benefit ratio seems high.
I would probably start with the City Manager, Mayor, or City Counsel, to determine if they really understand what the City employees are doing. If they do, you have a decision to make whether the cost to you personally, your business, and your money is really worth this battle. In the end you should win, but you will have ‘lost’ time and money that could have been invested in your business and personal life.
I personally would start making plans to relocate. You might even get some incentives and publicity from a neighboring city to move.
Best of luck with whatever course you decide to pursue.
Sounds like you guys are the unfortunate victims of a Mannheim Steamroller!
Extraordinarily petty – go for it if you wish but I’d rather you concentrated on Mikogo – you’ve already made them look mean-spirited – and is twitter that important?
I read the site as being a location indicator. I would suggest a discussion with the City of Mannheim where they should be informed about the value of the city name or the company location being used. It helps me to recognize where you are located. Posibly for other companies in the City it might also help to be recognized for their location. If this discussion does not work I would suggest you might consider relocating say to Thunder Bay Ontario, Canada. I am sure the City of Thunder Bay would appreciate your showing your location. I beleive this is called branding. If the City of Mannheim is so interested in their name and do not want to see anyone use it as a location indicator great. If no one sees Mannheim on the net and is not aware of it, then it must not exist. I am amazed at the approach taken by the City. Move to where you are welcome.
A similar case happened recently to Christopher Nolan, the director of the new batman moives, he was being sued by the turkish city of Batman (yes that is the real name of the city).
See how that turned out here
http://www.hurriyet.com.tr/english/domestic/10301376.asp
This is very gracious of them to provide you with such an easy viral marketing concept. This is almost good as the story of the woman with a breast feeding website that used the slogan “the other white milk” which got the pork industry up in arms. After traveling all over the web and making national news the pork industry backed down and made a contribution to the woman and her cause.
If this really goes viral it could create a lot of bad press for Mannheim Germany that they may not want and have the same effect of the big guys trying to supplant the little guys.
I think if Mannheim wanted the twitter account with the name Mannheim, they should have thought about that earlier. First come first serve in my book. That the way the internet work for the most part.
Preposterous!, They don’t have a leg to stand on. The name sounds Dutch? Check to see if it is persons last name or is used in any other place or town.
It definitely doesn’t look like anyone would actually create that name.
If it is used anywhere else or by anyone else they have no rights to it because it already isn’t exclusive.
Don’t sweat it!
Steve OUT!
I’ve gone down that road before: fighting big brother. Long, expensive, energy consuming and psychologically exhausting. These civil servants are just like the collective Borg: they don’t care, it’s not their money and the will just come coming at you forever. If they wanted your trademark: “Mikogo” I’d say go for it and fight. But since your twitter name is irrelevant to your business, use your money and energy where it really matters.
It’s not worth fighting just because they are acting like as***les. Those who tell you otherwise here won’t be footing the bill. So take it out of the hands of the Borg: call up the mayor or his aide. Let him know how his civil servants are stupid and how they are wasting the citie’s money and goodwill. Then tell him you want to resolve this ridiculous matter positively: he will do it.
And remember this: if you ask a lawyer his opinion: he’ll tell you you are right (and you probably are). But he will also be thinking about HIS pocket. You will be astounded in the end how much this will have cost you. Believe me: been there, done that.
Good luck. And remember what REALLY counts: the money left in your pocket at the end of the year.
Pls excuse typos…..!
pressed send too fast..
Please excuse my haste.
I think this is a total abuse of power. Some have said they could have contacted you to make offers first. They are expecting you to cave or settle before trial. What law is actually being violated? What statute? The letter is written in German so I don’t know but we were threatened by an organization called the OACAS (Ontario Association of Children’s Aid Societies) because I created a free yahoo group called OACASM which is for Ontario Association of Children’s Aid Society members.
It is a free discussion group for people interested in joining a CAS to advocate for changes using their rights as members (much like share holders in a profit company, but members for a non-profit)
Anyhow they sent lawyer letters to me threatening to take me to court.. but I just ignored it and asked what statute, they refused to say which one, and every now and then I ask them if they still have a problem with it, but they say yes, and don’t take it to court. Because they know it will have the negative effect.
The appearance of bullying. A multi-million dollar funded organization taking a single no income guy to court because he created a free yahoo group for people to use to talk to each other about memberships with Children’s Aid Societies.
I say wait it out, see where it goes..
I´m with you Mark. Stand up!
What a sad species we have become. It seems that the ONLY solution to everything these days is via legal recourse and suing each other. I watch TV in the UK and it is full of ‘No Win No Fee’ claims companies offering to sue everyone in sight.
As Chris Rea sang – ‘Highway to Hell’
My message to the world in general – ‘GROW UP’ and ‘GET OUT MORE’
I have just spent a week watching the Haiti crisis and programs on the slums in India. Put’s a bit of perspective on this sort of triviality.
Surley to god this trivia can be sorted over a cup of coffee!
This is just another example of legal departments having absolutely no idea how to deal with Social Media. My suggestion is to continue to do what you’re doing – yell loudly. (The email campaign was a nice touch, BTW). Write some press releases, contact bloggers and work any press connections you have – get some international press attention if possible. What is so ironic is that they probably want that Twitter account so that they can use it to promote their city through Social Media – I doubt very much this is the sort of attention that they want.
IF A REPRESENTATIVE FROM THE CITY OF MANNHEIM IS READING THIS: You *might* win this in a court, but you will *absolutely* loose in the court of public opinion. The only way to turn this into a win for your city is to stop the bullying immediately, invite the Mikogo guys to dinner with a top city official, put them up in the town’s best hotel, buy them a few pints of HB and make them a friend of yours. Do whatever you can to change this headline. Otherwise this is going to turn into a PR nightmare for you. The media around the world loves stories about underdogs, about Twitter and about ways to royally screw up using Twitter. This story WILL get picked up internationally and you WILL be the villains of the piece. Do you really want to see blogs calling the city of Mannheim “Twitter Nazis”? Because as insensitive and politically incorrect as that will be, that is exactly where this is headed. Whether you are in the right or not, this will not end well for you! Back off!
Hang in there, I agree that the big guy should not push the little guy around. Mark – you have the same rights as the City does and the City really owns you for causing a problem. If they wanted that name on Twitter- then they should have registered it. Don’t go down without a fight and then make the City pay for the suit and causing bad publicity to come over Mikogo and that good production. I like it and use it so keep doing what you do and tell them to Fly a Kite. Good Luck. Elton USA
It’s a twitter account you dumb fucks. There are better battles worth being fought.
There are people whose name is Mannheim… who owns the right to it?
As others have in parts already pointed out, §12 BGB together with §5 Gemeindeordnung Baden-Württemberg to me don’t seem to imply that a city actually owns the right on its name in the same way a company with a registered trademark would. And even if they did (and there must be some justification to that considering the heidelberg.de case), this is a German law, and thus I doubt that the international but US-based service Twitter has to abide by it. There’s also a city in the US called Mannheim, and I’m pretty sure there are US laws concerning that, too. The city of Heidelberg probably got heidelberg.de because .de domains involve the DENIC, which is incidentally located in Germany. (I haven’t studied Jurisprudence, though.
)
I’d say get yourself a good lawyer and let him say just that, the City of Mannheim doesn’t have any right to claim that Twitter account.
I live near Mannheim (in Ketsch if you wanna know), so this case is of quite particular interest to me. Also, I hadn’t heard of mikogo (though it’s so close) and it looks like a quite nice service. So that letter from the City of Mannheim at least did one good thing for you: it attracted me (and some other users near Mannheim, too, for sure) and drew my attention to you.
So long. Xjs.
I agree with so many of the comments above. I am a small business and I have been using Mikogo with my team with such great results and I can’t sing your praises highly enough .
Your company if providing publicity to the city of manheim and they need to be aware of that . I think the comment about moving to another town and taking the tax payers money there is a great idea, even if a little drastic, and calling your new twitter account not in manheim.. or anywhere but mannheim !
what is mannheim’s problem…. haven’t they got anything else better to do ? or MAYBE one of the instigators of this ridiculous attempt to sue you, has a hidden agends, look for someone with shares in one of your inferior competitors… and doesn’t like the fab job you are doing.
I can possibly see them having a point if it was a domain name in question – there are clear legal precedents on this …. but a Twitter account? It’s not April 1st so some municipal jobsworth must be serious about this. As long as you are not impersonating them I can’t see anything wrong – all you did was choose a user name. If I choose the username of my hometown when I register on a forum because it’s easy for me to remember I don’t think anyone’s going to hound me. If Twitter hadn’t become the phenomenon it has, your city wouldn’t be interested now. They’ve just woken up to an opportunity they missed out on and sour grapes are the order of the day.
Good luck with your fight and if you need donations to fight the cause I’m sure you’ll find a lot of willing givers.
This is a common example of someone who should have a name, but someone else got it first. It’s very difficult to register anything these days. When I registered for Twitter, just about every combination of anything was gone. We recently started a small business and same problem. There are a lot of people holding domain names hoping someone else will need that name and pay them a lot of money for it. It’s a dirty way to make money. The right thing for the City of Mannheim would have been to contact Mark and negotiate exchanging the name possibly for a small fee. Damned attorneys!
You could move to America, but the attorneys here are probably much worse than the ones in your homeland. I’m sure you will work things out with the city.
Andrew.
Wow. This is political correctness gone mad. Keep the name. What if Mannheim Steamroller had taken that twitter handle?? Would the city still fight?
Good Luck. I’m now following on twitter.
I would find a family whose ancestral name, Mannheim, predates the naming of the City and get a lawyer to send a cease and desist to the city for using their surname.
Since the name is in your Twitter “address” and they want it removed, do they want you to take the name out of your mailing address also? I wonder if the band “Chicago” had the same problem with the city of Chicago, or The Bay City Rollers, or ……
Don’t you guys have anything better to do than spam me with this bullshit? I don’t honestly give a damn about your problems with the city of Mannheim.
I do not want to be included in further discussion on the subject.
@Mikael: I guess first come first serve
I agree with ‘afterfostercare’. What are they suing you for? Although my understanding of their letter is imperfect, it seems not to specify what they are suing you for. Which law/byelaw/ordinance or whatever are you supposed to have broken/bent/ignored? Legal advice should not be too expensive. You only want to know if it’s reasonably safe to ignore their letter. My guess is, that without a specific charge against you, you can ignore it. The other contributors who refer to the PR disaster Mannheim is courting are probably right. You could consider replying to their letter, asking ‘what is the charge?’ and pointing out the PR disaster if they continue.
Good luck. I don’t use Mikogo often, but when I do it’s brilliant.
Exactly! They could have asked him to give it up nicely!
Join the protest group on facebook! Tell your friends!!
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=313804191520
Sorry to hear about this problem you are having.
1.) Get legal advice. Determine if the law is with you or the City of Mannheim.
2.) Make adjustments to survive, including eliminating active use of “Mannheim” temporarily until you are in a financial position to fight, if the law is on your side.
God bless.
You should consider moving your operation out of Mannheim to one with a less hostile business climate. This can only go down hill from here. Sooner or later you’ll need a permit, license, etc. and they could bury you in red tape just for spite.
Now if you’ll excuse me, I’m off to sue everybody else in the world named Ken.
As long as the twitter account name is “Mannheim” and not “City of Mannheim” the city shouldn’t have a case. Has, the City gone after “Mannheim Steamroller?”
U.S. copyright laws are sketchy in this situation. Look at the current international laws (And IT treaties).
If I were the judge ruling in this case I’d have to weight the damage and impact of the situation first.
1) Is German business being redirected away from city commerce because of this?
2) Can the twitter account be construed as a marketing vehicle in which profit and exchange results from any “representation by appearance vs represenation in fact” of the city. If anyone can reasonably believe there is confusion here, then the city arguments would most likely prevail.
It seems to me, there is a potential conflict of misrepresentation.
If I were Mikogo, I’d consider renaming the account. Save a lot of legal fees. It may also serve to establish a unique relationship withthat city, in which they might stanchly advocate Mikogo, for having showed good faith to resolve the issue… Just saying.
Get up, get up, stand up for your rights.
I basically agree with Scott Demarko….you should give them the account while gaining lots of positive publicity.
The city should be HAPPY that you have the account rather than someone with Mannheim as a surname (in which case they may never have gotten it back), happy so that they can work with you in a positive, collaborative way.
The city should also get the MannheimStadt account.
Dude,
You got to loosen up a little bit. I think its not such a big deal, and the same thing happened to tld.
I’ve used Mikogo and it works very well. In fact MIkogo is an asset to Mannheim City. Get legal opinion and try to sort this out amicably.
If you ask me I think the big guys are far to smart for the lot of you including Mark!
…and I guess me for adding to the mix!
This is obviously a very nice and handy way of getting a massive amout of free publicity for M_________________city who ever hear of M city prior to this post?
Its a “gotya” if ever I saw one.
Or am I being a touch too cynical? (that’s what 20 years working for a corporate will do to you, don’t say I didn’t warn you all)
Fight it, but not to the point where it might hurt you. Know what battles to walk away from. Know when to retreat graciously and live to fight another day.
This is legalese and lawyers gone mad. It would make an interesting court case for them to prove who has ownership and rights! I would suggest that only the good people (en masse) of Mannheim could speak to that and they won’t give a toss.
Good luck but really, not big enough to either get a kicking or to piss off the gov.
IMHO you should treat it like a domain name. Fight the city in court. Win the court battle because it looks like you have a good case (and I doubt a city name is copyrighted lol). Then offer to sell the twitter account to the city. Like a domain name
Cant see why he didnt just set up his account as Mikogo? Any city should be able to keep their own name as should any company. How would he like it if someone else set up a Mikogo account?
Wow. I hope after this is resolved you leave the city so they won’t get any benefits they may have been getting from having you stationed there.
And if they win then who has the rights to a city name? In the US many cities have the same names in several different states.
Do a name search for Mannheim, find a person with that last name, transfer/sell them the account. I think depending on country (I live in the U.S., so much is based on the laws I know here) the city would have almost no right to claim the name.
That is a way to not give it to the city for going after it in a bully-like fashion.
Whatever you decide to do, goodluck.
THERE ARE 69,400,000 ENTRIES FOR MANNHEIM IN GOOGLE. INSIST THAT THEY SUE EVERY ENTRY OR NONE. MONTE MELDMAN MD
Hi Mark,
es gibt einige Seiten zum Thema Unterlassungserklärung.
Zuerst ist es eine häßliche Art, daß eine Stadt nicht auf gütlichem Weg den Vergleiich sucht.
Ob sie recht haben oder nicht sein dahingstellt.
Auf jeden Fall rechtlichen Beistand suchen.
Wenn der Chancen sieht, schlage ich folgende Vorgehensweise vor:
1. Eine negative Feststellungsklage einreichen (mehr dazu hier: http://www.dl2mcd.de/abmahntipps.html).
2. Verlagerung des Firmensitzes MEDIENWIRKSAM weg von Mannheim
3. Einen versierten Rechtsanwalt suchen
Kopf hoch, wird schon werden!
Chris
Great marketing Mark! By the end of the day you will be number one on twitter and you will grow Mikogo exponentially with people that never heard of you before. Your company will be worth millions and the city will have to pay you even MORE to get their stupid city name back. (I see you were smart enough to register your own company name for people to search. Let us see if your followers increase from 900.) (The guy that registered cityofmannheim on twitter a little while ago will probably make more money than you though, if the city REALLY wants their CITY name.)
In principle, he who gets the name first has ALWAYS won unless it is a trademark violation. Imagine all the lawsuits that would come up for EVERY name if the city wins this.
I can hardly wait for world depression because the first thing on the plate when people get hungry will be lawyers. After they are gone the world will regain sanity.
PS – It does not surprise me that German Officials (or even our messiah here in the US holding the highest office) would try to take away your liberties, steal and oppress. Remember that other guy that tried that? His name started with an “H” during the last world war. Why not put the names of the city officials up here and we can do some research and see if there are any relations or connections.
Email me and I will get you a ton of twitter followers.
Someone mentioned a counter suite for expenses. I know that is California, USA, the looser of any civil case is liable for the legal costs of the other. Further, even if you don’t loose, you can be liable for expenses that could have been avoided if you purposefully draw out the battle with frivolity.
Good luck
PS I assumed Mikogo was a Japanese name!?
I guess Paris Hilton should think of changing her name then…
Someone takes your username? Too bad. Pick a variation like everyone else does. “cityofmannheim” or “mannheimde”. Or just use the usual variation- your birthday. “mannheim1607″. How hard is it to compromise?
At the same time, I’m confused as to why the co-founder of Mikogo wouldn’t use “mikogo” or some variation of it as his Twitter username? I personally wouldn’t use the city’s name, since it’s not really a part of my identity, but if it’s a large part of Mikogo’s corporate identity, then I suppose I would keep it.
I will fully support you and I am sure you would win this battle by showing the power of mikogo who is helping every one in a big way with your free services (and of course with help from your users).
Fight it!
This is absolutely rediculous. But dont feel like your alone check this one that is attempting to be done as well in the US.
http://governor.ky.gov/pressrelease.htm?PostingGUID=%7B6930A5AD-8BF6-499C-A4DB-70A3544BFF7D%7D
This would also be an issue for every account out there that has the name of a sports team or college.
There is a thin line between tangible assests in the real world and the virtual world.
Good luck!
Is it worth the fight?Isn’t here a way to link the name to a porn site and then abandon it?Good luck.
Hi,
I am on your side.
you might want to pop over to this websight and see what you are in for, http://www.fordreallysucks.com/more_info.html .
it is about someone who just had ford inbedded in his url for his parts busness supplying parts that ford does not anymore.
OK, I know domain names and twitter accounts are miles apart, but you might see if this case set any precidents.
This is incredible, and I thought Germany wouldn’t follow in the footsteps of the USA and sue over every little thing.
If anything, the city of Mannheim should be encouraging you use the name to promote its extistence and in turn promote tourism.
This is no different than if you registered the web name: http://www.mannheim.com and then later the city decided it wanted it’s name, you would have to give it to them. When the Internet was first becoming popular, major corporations were having to fight to get their names back from “individuals.” Coke, Pepsi, and numerous others.
If you registered a name that “clearly” would be associated with a legitimate, well-known company, they would have the rights to take ownership of that name. I believe you will eventually find that governing rules for domain name disputes will apply for major social networking sites.
The following are factors as elements that a court can consider to determine whether a domain name was registered in bad faith:
* Does the domain name holder have trademark rights in the domain name?
* Is the domain name the legal name of the domain name holder, or some other name that is otherwise commonly used to identify that person?
* Has the domain name holder made use (prior to the dispute) of the domain name in connection with a bona fide sale of goods or services?
* Is the domain name holder using the mark in a bona fide noncommercial or fair use way at a web site accessible at the domain name?
* Is the domain name holder attempting to divert consumers from the trademark owner’s web site in a confusing way, either for commercial gain or in an attempt to tarnish or disparage the trademark mark?
* Has the domain name holder offered to sell the domain name to the trademark owner (or anyone else) for financial gain without having any intent to use the mark with the sale of goods or services?
* Has the domain name holder behaved in a pattern of registering and selling domain names without intending to use them in connection with the sale of goods or services?
* Did the domain name holder provide false information when applying for the registration of the domain name (or do so in connection with other domain names)?
* Has the domain name holder registered domain names of other parties trademarks?
* How distinctive and famous is the trademark owner’s trademark?
As much as I would dislike having to give up my registered online namespace, if it turned out that there was a legitimate, long-standing, and well-known entity (like a city) by that same name, I would choose to do the right thing and allow them to buy it from me for an “inconvenience fee.”
Besides, anytime you involve lawyers, it makes EVERYTHING 100% worse! Only the lawyers win as they get the money. The two parties fighting lose out completely.
Best of luck.
How desparate is that!? How much would the city save by offering Mark less than what they would spend on the lawsuit.
My only other thought is that maybe there is some hidden agenda here.
Ooh, i just had a thought. copy wright your twitter name and them send a cease and desist order to every map maker, search engine, reference publisher, any entity extant to remove said name! you might even sue any city with that name too while you are at it.
Dear Mikogo,
If you are reading all these responses, you are spending way too much time on this problem.
You have a business to run. Unless this is essential to your business operations, you should put this behind you as quickly as possible. If you intend to stay in Mannheim, you should be building a bridge with the city, not a wall.
You should plan to have one quiet discussion with the proper City officials, seek a compromise, and if there is none, you should walk away from the name and move on to more important things.
As a Mikogo user, I am more interested in seeing bug fixes and new features than seeing you win the use of the Mannheim name on twitter!
Jim
The City of Mannheim does not have to worry about your misrepresenting them. They seem well able to make themselves look foolish.
The Internet is supposed to be free and for everybody.
Silly, silly City of Mannheim.
Hello,
We’ve been using your product for a few months and have really enjoyed it!
We’re a small company developping softwares too, I can imagine what it’s like to receive such a letter…
Have you tried to contact them over the phone and talked to the person responsible for this? They certainly made a mistake by handling the matter this way…
It may be worth trying what normal people do, give
All the best
Benjamin
Paris. France.
what legal rationale are they relying on? Mark – perhaps some form of a petition to drive this point home
Keep your Twitter name. They can’t win this legal battle, and you can sue them for full compensation of legal expense (At least in the U.S. you can). Unbelievable that the city is doing this to you…one of their own great entrepreneurs. Stay strong, don’t quit, this could be great publicity for you, Mikogo and your future business ventures.
Scott Demarko’s the way to go !
Hello,
We’ve been using your product for a few months and have really enjoyed it!
We’re a small company developping softwares too, I can imagine what it’s like to receive such a letter…
Have you tried contacting them over the phone and talked to the person responsible for this? There might be a way to solve the problem easily.
They certainly made a mistake by handling the matter this way.
It may be worth trying what normal people do: give a phone call first before sending a lawyer.
All the best
Benjamin
Paris. France.
Scott Demarko’s reply is the way to go.
That is quite surprising for me. Im really exciting about this, wathcing to where the internet goes. I can understand if it is the domain name. I know google have won in court in our country – Ukraine, and has taken google.com.ua, just simply saying that using ‘google’ word in domain name is not allowed.
But, lol, Twitter. Haha. Im surprised. Are they serious?
Ladislav
Many cities have the same name. Can one sue another for this as well based on how old the city is?
” The city of Mannheim bullies it’s citizens”…remember the you tube “United breaks guitars” ? They received alot of media attention after this video…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YGc4zOqozo&feature=PlayList&p=D7949FF7DD11D253&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=4
Do you know any clever musicians? Make a funny video about this absurdity. Go for the publicity. Fight it, it’s yours fair and square. It’s the principal of the thing. Really…
You are doing great stuff and you have a great product, keep it up and focus on what you are trying to achieve which is not fighting legal battles with stupid public servants and lawyers.
As a few other bloggers have recommended, don’t waste your time with this, it has no value for you. Yes principles are important but save your energy and resources for battles worth fighting.
Be a good citizen and and call a press conference with any media you can get hold of and invite the mayor to give the city the account. You probably can’t buy that kind of publicity, but now you have it for free courtesy of the idiots who work for the city, so take advantage.
At the press conference state that you will move the company and your tax somewhere else as sson as its practical because who knows what else they might find to harass your and your business the next time.
Then get on you with your business and life and ignore those fools, they are not worth wasting your time on.
Well , I think they have gone about it all wrong, and also that is very unbecoming of them to do this at all.nPoor public relations.
Perhaps you should point out to them after this is all over that if they simply asked for it, offered a small token of appreciation and a letter of thanks after giving you time to migrate your account and followers, they would have probably saved half the money that they paid the lawyers to threaten you with!
And even if it is a German law, it is a service based in America, so unless they can find some other way to approach cutting you off from its service, I can’t see how they are going to manage this one unless Twitter helps them.
Just be careful, fighting city hall is one thing, doing it without getting on their blacklist is another.
Don’t get me wrong, stand up an fight it… just remember that if you take it too far it could have implications that you might not see coming
[...] Account betreibt Mark Zondler schon seit 2007 wie auf seinem Blog (in englisch) zu lesen ist. Außerdem findet man dort auch die PDF-Datei, mit dem eingescannten [...]
So it’s just an extension of all the crazy lawsuits over domain names. People intentionally (or unintentionally) camping on trademarked names.
[...] is not giving up however. It registered the account fair and square and, as it points out in a post, the city could easily get something like “city_mannheim”. (Then again, the more press this [...]
Listen up city of Harlem! We will not go down!
You have a great product and I hope you make jilllions of dollars.
Those suggesting you are making a mountain out of a mole hill are missing the point.
And to believe the city “has a point” is error.
Unless German law is funky on this subject, I suspect they don’t have a leg to stand on. The suggestion to seek legal advice is good and if you find they are indeed way overstepping their bounds with their cease/decist order, then your atty. should write to inform them that if they sue, you will counter-sue for the damages in time, legal fees and emotional turmoil they caused you with a frivolous suit.
Hopefully in this case, the “threat of legal action” can run both ways. I’ll bet if your atty agrees a counter suit in German Law is an available remedy for you, that his letter will result in their backing down, realizing their bullying tactics did not work….at least not this time.
And moving from Mannheim should only be considered if it is in meaningful ways advantageous for your company and for you and your employees. Don’t move to exact revenge if it will cause you and/or your employees loss of money or inconvenience.
Here is where countersuing makes a lot of sense.
I think you should blog it to the citizens (may be you already have). It would be interesting to find out what do the citizens would react to a City government that is using their tax dollars this way. I guess this must be a very quiet City and the Legal Department of the City must not have much things to do. I would definitely take it to the public. I don’t think the Mayor would win any publicity vote for the re-election. I think this is will be a stunning publicity act for the Mayor and a good weapon for his rival.
I agree with your first come first right position. The city should have no claim. But why do you care really? it is not the your name, the name of your product, or name of your company.
Sell the rights to them. Then move your business to a location that appriceiates your tax revenue and local business.
Although you may be in the right, it seems that you are most offended by the way the contacted you.
Where is common sense in all of this?
The City of Mannheim should have first asked nicely in a letter and offered small compensation for the inconvenience of switching names and followers, etc. Plus, it would have been less expensive that a lawsuit.
To go straight to a lawsuit is extreme. It is not like you are trying to make it seem as if you are representing the city itself. It is silly really.
Good for you for not rolling over and just playing dead!
Got to appreciate the humor in all of this:
“Dean Hoover on January 22, 2010 at 4:55 pm
I think you should send a Cease and Desist order to the City of Mannheim telling them they have to change the name of their city so they don’t misrepresent your Twitter account.”
I could not stop laughing!
To me, this is preposterous. How many times do all of us run into this very issue of a username we would like to use being taken before we get there. I don’t have any legal right to my name for these purposes, why should they? Sorry city of Mannheim, the web is and always has been; First come, first served. Perhaps the web contributors there do not realize that they are not limited to Mannhiem009-745 or whatever alternate usernames are offered to them by Twitter. Maybe someone in the city should get creative and come up with a username that not only identifies Mannheim, but gives the Twitter followers something memorable or cute to encourage an enthusiastic following. I wonder about a city government that has nothing better to do than persue legal action over an Internet social website username. Can anyone say, “Prioritie’s!”. Just my $.02.
Jim,
I notice you stole the trade name for Jimmy Dean Sausage by using their trade name when you signed your blog post. I would be careful if I were you in using the trade name Jim in any further activities.
This “fight” is about YOU being able to use YOUR name reasonably.
If everyone would look at the details it is obvious why Mark used mannheim as his twitter name. First the company already had Mikogo. It is reasonable for Mark to have a personal account that identifies him and choosing a city where he lives is NOT unreasonable and has been done by MANY. Not only is it a logical choice but it identifies his company location.
Besides he could not have used MARK for a twitter name or GERMANY would have sued him for stealing their currency.
Hey Douche Bag David –
We aren’t talking about domain names! This is a Twitter screen name. An account name. NOT a domain name!
Twitter is a community as is Mannheim. People reside in cities such as Mannheim and communities such as Twitter. Each person has rights to stake a claim on a home or an address/property either by name, street address, grant deed and so on within a city. Twitter like other online communities give residents of those communities a fair and equal shot at obtaining such an address. Since most don’t use a street address like within a city the norm is to use a name. The “norm” being the key word here. Since “The Norm” has already been established and accepted it is up to individuals/companies etc to grab the name they want as fast as they can in order to acquire rights to it within the online community. If anything selling that online name is a option I have yet to see within a lot/most all online communities but would and could generate some serious income and fun. An individual’s reasons for obtaining such a or/any name can be argued if someone else makes a claim to it, but since a real city has it’s guidelines which are followed and set in stone, so does the internet. And frankly the internet is a first come first served opportunity.
Unfortunately, it costs to defend one-self and the only one who will win in this situation are the attorneys who get lucky to get to defend and attack. Thus the reason that “attachment” is something we must learn to release sometimes for that when it becomes a burden it is time to consider that the universe has bigger plans for us. Personally I would raise the money and go after them but for what? Other than being uneducated and have a desire to waste money. My suggestion is to make Mannheim suffer by showing up in large numbers at their retail places and not buying anything. Driving 20 miles below the speed limits, stalling whenever possible, cost them money in their services and make them understand that the internet way over rules any city and can at anytime, any place. Good luck with your challenges in life. Don’t let your challenges that are controlled by someone else over take the fun.
Perhaps a concerted effort on the part of all twitter users to occupy and retain as many mannheim named accounts as possible? Boy, wouldn’t that just cook the goose…
First let me say that Mikogo is a great product which I use regularly. I appreciate and admire your engineering and business philosophy.
The demand letter sent to you by the city of Mannheim is simply a standard practice by lawyers to intimidate you into complying with their wishes, and is based on your ignorance of the law.
Germany no doubt has anti-cybersquatting laws, and these are relatively uniform except for Russia and China. The key element is the demonstration of bad faith. Mannheim must prove that you registered the twitter domain to hold it hostage to a favorable buy-out (which is why you must not offer to sell it to Mannheim or anyone else…). You should also not use the twitter account to say anything bad about the city of Mannheim or its municipal authorities.
The burden of proof is on Mannheim, and these cases are difficult to prosecute successfully. Most go to arbitration (check your twitter terms of service for details of how they arbitrate these disputes). If the city of Mannheim wishes to take you to court, then there is the issue of jurisdiction. Twitter is based in San Francisco. Does the city of Mannheim intend to prosecute the issue in San Francisco courts?
Ultimately, your legal exposure is a matter of how much the twitter domain is worth to the city of Mannheim–I can’t imagine its very much. Some elected official will have to justify the expense, and I would bet most good burghers don’t even know what a twitter is
. Ironically, the reason they’ve sent you the demand letter is almost certainly because they can’t justify paying for it with city funds, which would almost certainly be cheaper than suing you. They’re bluffing, unless there is something you haven’t told us.
I’d be more worried about the other kinds of pressure the city could bring to bear on you. You could suddenly find inspectors crawling all over your home and business, looking for out-of-compliance issues for which they can fine you, etc… Your protection is to yell as loudly as you can on the internet to make sure that they can’t do these things in a dark corner.
On the other hand, do you really need the Mannheim domain? Mikogo means something to me, Mannheim is just another city in Germany.
Once you engage a lawyer, you can’t talk to whoever is is behind this, so don’t do that until you’ve had a chance to meet with the city official who wants the twitter domain. Tell him (only a man would want to fight about this…) you’d gladly trade the domain for some non-monetary compensation, such as official recognition by the city of Mikogo, a chance to ride with the mayor in a parade, etc…
Good luck!
Tell the city to f-off
Your crook’s name is zondler and Mannheim
I now will never visit or buy anything from Mannheim because i do not want to support that government in any form.
My advice:
You can follow two strategies:
1. Go on to the court and get more media coverage, free publicity,
2. Try to settle the case out of court. Ask them to pay you (a.) a hefty sum, e.g. 1 million euros, or b.) a symbolic amount, e.g. 1 euro) for having the disputed ID transferred to them
3. Stay peacefully like a fearful bun.
It’s your turn to decide!
Why would the City Of Mannheim want to tweet? This is a waste of our tax Euros. Who cares for Twitter, anyway?
Sorry, there are 3 strategies to follow.
go ahead. do them the favour and obey them. try to ask for some money in return. They won’t be granted the use of that username anyway, since twitter does not allow it. does it?
in my own experience, no one can use my old username again.
@john p.g. Mannheim is not a specially beautiful city and it will hardly change with a dessist and obey letter.
Tourists are not stupid chickens anyway.
stronzo!!
http://twitter.com/leimen
http://twitter.com/heidelberg
http://twitter.com/neckargemund
lol. they are all taken. they’re gonna have a huge problem here.
Ha, my name is not really Mikogo, but I was interested to see what Mikogo would think if I did have the Twitter name Mikogo.
How would Mark react to me?
Would he make me a deal $$ or appeal to a higher power?
I really like Mikogo and would hate to see you guys get tied up in anything that would take away from the product. Mannheim as a Twitter name really isn’t that great anyway
Pick your battles wisely
Russ
It’s the nature of the web that he who gets the name first owns it, if someone else wants that name bad enough they got to pay. it’s backward to sue someone for it, otherwise the domain auctions wouldn’t be auctions they’d be lawfirms.
I haven’t read everything before, so sorry if I’m repeating anyone!
I think the city just really wants your name ans they sent you a threat so perhaps you’d back down, but I don’t think they actually will sue you because they have absolutely no chance of winning, the court would probably rule in your favor on day 1.
As the last comment touches on, you name could well be Daniel Mannheim, I don’t know if there are any such names in Germany, but there are for other cities. In this case would it be illegal for you to use the name on Twitter?
Deutch (means German in German) is used as a family name in Hungary as well for example, and someone could very well register twitter.com/deutch and I don’t think it would be a valid argument that it is the name of a country.
Anyway, I think this will not go to court, if it does, just sit back, I don’t think you have any chance of loosing.
Good luck though, the people in charge of Mannheim are idiots
those govt employees need to get a life… they have nothing better to do with their time.
Find someone called Mannheim and sell him the account for 1 Eur, so he will own it with full right. Then he offers the account to the city for a nice sum, and if they buy it you can share the profit…
If the law is on the city’s side – and they’ve probably already vetted this through their legal staff…then I’d change mine to something like: Mannheimwhine; Mannhein1; Mann-hein; NotMannheim or something very similar, but not exactly the same as the city’s, apparently, licensed name. Not worth fighting over in my opinion. Rick
That is just absurd! I’m with the above responses IE: Send back a written response that says “No way”. It must be tough to be a business in Mannheim if you can’t use the cities name. For that matter if you find even one business with the name like “Mannheim Drug store” they have set a president that they already have allow the use.
…..ah yes, and send me 10% for the advice
We need to ban together behind Mikogo! After all the excellent, unbias, people focused work they have done PLUS thier charity to help others conduct business via a free program(which we should donate to for GP), the lawsuit is selfish, tyrannical, and abusive. I agree with the brother below.
“Dean Hoover on January 22, 2010 at 4:55 pm
I think you should send a Cease and Desist order to the City of Mannheim telling them they have to change the name of their city so they don’t misrepresent your Twitter account.”
I could not stop laughing
The Q Man — God forbid anyone think you have anything to do with the City….it would make people think twice about doing business with you. Does anyone know how to say Assholes in German?
I don’t believe for one second that this infamous letter represents the official position of the City of M. It’s simply the result of a few bureaurats (yes, I know, I am a bad speller) who are trying to convince their supervisors that they are worth their money. They are simply fighting to keep their jobs, that’s all. Consequently it would be pointless to create a big fuss and to start start thinking about hiring expensive lawyers.
My choice would be to create a lot of publicity, like for instance running big ads in the newspapers, which inevitably would result in these bureaurats being thrown out for soiling their own nest.
In case you are considering following the suggestion made by Chuck Thompson at 5:30 pm by opening a fund to fight this bureaucratic load of bulls…, I definitely will make a contribution and I hereby invite other respondents to indicate in their responses whether they are willing to do the same, all for the good course: let’s show those bureaurats who really is boss!!!
It would be great if you could translate this letter so that we can see what is it that they want and WHY. What is their side, why do they feel that this is so important to take this from you, what is driving this? If this a mere desire to screw you over or is there a true need for them to have it. See if you can get some $$ out it and more publicity. There has got to be some reasoning behind it, unless this is purely based on posturing and bully-like behavior. What I am saying, until you find out WHY you will never know WHAT to do about it.
Also. if this is a government law firm, I would say put on your running shoes and RUN, don’t even look back. Germans are known for their fastidiousness and will not be satisfied until they get their way. Not sure how bright their government employees are, but if they are anything like the ones in US, you will have a fight of a lifetime on your hands. No matter how clearly your letters will be written, some dumb$$k will misinterpret it and send it back and resend it. A year from now, your company will fold because you will run out of funds, unless you can get some pro bono work.
I am one of those “can’t we all get along” people so this may not appeal to you. Generally, when dealing with contentions, it’s best to use a “we” instead of “me” approach, and negotiate about things before taking it to the legal arena, because there, everybody looses. By “we” I mean: how can we take care of this by which both (all) parties can benefit and prosper. Define a zone of agreement where you can get something out of this and get a great negotiator that will help you enter that zone.
You are doing the right thing by not just rolling under the carpet but standing up for your rights does not have to a negative experience.
Hi Mark, hi everybody,
I am sorry to hear what’s happening. I wish it would not and Germany and the Germans would be more relaxed. But you know yourself, that’s how the Germans tick.
Nevertheless, what if Mannheim decided to use Twitter for whatever services to the public?
I know, they could use Mannheim-Stadt (means City) but most people would expect it to be Mannheim. What if somebody decided to have a commercially used Twitter account named Mikogo? Would you say, never mind if you wanted this name?
Although this abrupt sounding legal letters seems ridiculous it is simply law in Germany that you cannot use a town name for you own personal or commercial gain.
I am German and live in New Zealand where the domain newzealand.com was used for years by a German travel agency. I do not know how the NZ government solved it but for the last years newzealand.com is now the worldwide known entry point for all sorts of NZ stuff: travel, immigration, investment, everything.
It will be the same once NZ decides to use Twitter.
You have used this letter nicely for a good PR campaign so you have already made some money out of it. I would let it run for some more time, generate some more publicity and then sign that letter.
As a commercially thinking person that it what you are going to do, I think.
Regards
Stefan
It will be hard to stand against this phalanx of supporters. However, I believe names have first of all the purpose to present an identity. When I talk to twitter.com/mannheim I would expect first of all the cities of Mannheim (be it the original or the ones in Chicago, Dakota etc.) or someone who has this name out of tradition. I think your legitimate twitter name would be twitter.com/mikogo. You would not tolerate if the city of Mannheim would use your name for their own marketing. The problem is that opinions expressed under the name of Mannheim may be well mistaken as the ones of the city.
I personally dismiss users who show a given and disguised identity. I am also from Mannheim and I would also like to have the name, but I am fair and leave it to the city to share with all citizens. It is their branding not yours.
Do not fight windmills. Stick to your brand and avoid messing up with other’s merits.
What a retarded person on their IT team at the City. Also, not to mention a retarded lawyer for entertaining this idea.
Fight the power!
BTW do they want to fight with Mannheim, New York about it?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manheim,_New_York
Do they really think they’re the only ones with a claim to this name??? Maybe under the .de domain for URLs but this is ridiculous.
Typical bureaucrats trying to pretend they are relevant. Same morons everywhere these days. Tell them to fuck off!
Do they have an international patent for the name If not than they have no legal right. Also there must be people with the surname same as the city. Lastly you should check out how many commecial or businesses are using the same name.
You need not be frightened what can they do, the worst outcome is that you will be ordered by a court to give up the name. So please do not give up until than. The City officials have nothing better to do!!!
Is this part which the city is claiming is their sole property, certainly not. The city has used the same name while addressing you, so they admit this is a part of your name as well. This is just rediculous on the part of city to go to court to sue someone for the name which is commonly used by lots of people around the world specially in Germany.
Better you respond them for claiming the damages in case they dont stop this nonsense.
Apparently, the claim is ridiculous:
1. Twitter is a US company, and no company is obliged to make sure that the usernames and the logins conform to legal and registered names.
2. Mannheim is not a trademark.
3. Mark did not violate the terms of use of Twitter.
I do not know whether Germany law dismisses “frivolous lawsuits”, but this certainly would fall under the definition of one. Also, don’t assume that just because they threaten with a lawsuit, they’ll go for one. In 90% cases it does not happen. Even if the complaint is filed, there are months of negotiations.
Now, maybe it does not look like this for the moment, but don’t regard it as a half-empty glass. THIS IS YOUR CHANCE FOR PUBLICITY. You may be able to promote your brand as well.
On the more practical side, I’d suggest replying to the letter with questions (my German is rusty, so maybe they mentioned that already):
1. What evidence to they have of you posing as the City of Mannheim? Did your posts indicate that you represent the City of Mannheim?
2. What kind of decision will they take if a person whose surname is Mannheim will create such an account?
3. As Twitter is a US company, are they obliged to give a German municipality exclusivity on the usernames? What happens if the location name is ambiguous?
4. Did they contact Twitter with this problem? Could it be that they are the ones violating the terms and conditions which probably do not allow harassing other users?
Be polite though. I don’t think their lawyers are very eager to look idiots in the court, so if your arguments are sound enough, they might just explain this to their client.
Counter sue them and ask for expenses and money for time spent in these procedure. Your company is doing great and myself I am using your product.
Even my last name resembles a Town near to me and I am using the same for almost all my accounts over internet.
Don’t give up
SORRY they are not the only Mannheim
Mannheim, a city in Germany
Mannheim (Sanmar, Maryland), a house on the U.S. National Register of Historic Places
Manheim, New York, a town in the United States
Manheim, Pennsylvania
Manheim Township, Lancaster County, Pennsylvania
West Manheim Township, York County, Pennsylvania
Mannheim Road, a major north-south thoroughfare in the suburbs of Chicago
[edit] People
Amédée Mannheim, the inventor of the modern slide rule
Camryn Manheim (born 1961), American actress
Karl Mannheim, Hungarian sociologist
Lucie Mannheim, German actress
Ralph Manheim (1907-1992), translator
Kjetil Manheim, Norwegian musician
Mannheim Schah, Malaysian citizen
[edit] Other
“Mannheim School”, variety of classical music
Bruno “Ugly” Mannheim, a Superman villain
PEN/Ralph Manheim Medal for Translation
Mannheim or Midgard, home of Men in Norse mythology
Adler Mannheim, SV Waldhof Mannheim and VfR Mannheim, sports teams from Mannheim
Mannheim Steamroller, an American musical group
Manheim Automotive Services, major wholesale automobile auction company, subsidiary of Cox Enterprises, Inc.
don’t give up the name, they can find so many other alternative names, Mikogo you have my support and my voice good luck. I will not visit Mannheim city because they just lost me as tourist and they will lose alot more because of this nosense action.
This is an argument about ownership and rights. And unfortunately the current “owner” of the name, regardless of what it spells, has the right to keep it, or to do what they want with it. End of story. The courts would agree. Are they going to go after the “mannheim steamrollers” for using the name? are they going to chase after every so called use of a name that they share with the world? This is a joke, and they are just mad that they didn’t get it first.
My 2 cents :
In my opinion, you should not fight but choose another name. It is not the question of whether it is legal or not. You should ask yourself “Is this right” and what you would have done had you been in their shoes.
Think of your reaction if someone registers his Twitter Account with the name MIKOGO before you do…. and he honestly carries out his activities without causing any damage to your reputation… still would you be ok with it ?
Agreed… you did not have any malafide intentions in registering this name and you did not pose as the city itself but every city / country has a history and people residing there have their emotions attached to its name.
I thought the Gestapo was eliminated, next thing to happen is the office is stormed and Mark is hauled away to a concentration camp, please remind them this is 2010 not 1944.
Ask everyone to add you as a follower and add us back, we will be happy to post objections directly onto the Twitter account!
This is utterly stupid and ridiculous. You cannot dictate what username he/she can have. This is also waste of tax payers money.
I support you in your fight. You must dig in.
If your Twitter account name were Mikogo, and a Mikogo City came pestering you, I’d agree with all those encouraging you to fight. But I have to say that your account name was poorly chosen, and perhaps they felt rather like the makers of Mellel felt when they found that the mellel.com domain had been taken by the makers of their competitor, Mariner Write.
The only issue of principle in your favor here is that first contact (at least according to your account; we have no way of knowing whether there’s another side to the story) was initiated in a rather aggressive manner, rather than as a polite inquiry. Perhaps you could tell us how you would probably have responded if it had been a polite request?
Quite surprising as to how petty things just become ‘the-biggest-concern’ overnight!
An account name, same as the city’s where a firm is located: hmm.., well that definitely spells trouble coz the firm is manufacturing Nukes!! may leave a ‘bad-name’ for the city!. (@legal team: ‘m kidding)
Hats off to the legal team for i’m sure they have found the soulution to Global-warming: comparitively a smaller issue; and are now are focussed on a bigger issue “why the city name for blogging”
Sirs,
). I believe, if at all they use the city name in a blog a\c it is Good will.
I’ve been using Mikogo for over a year now. Mikogo users, across the globe rely on it for their unmatched services (and the part that its free
You see i wasn’t aware of the city ‘Mannheim’, (my georgapthy is pathetic). But them now i have 2 reason to associate to the city of Mannheim-
1) Mikogo and 2) the good people of Mannheim who took back the case and realized that afterall the citys name is being used for a good reason on the blog a\c.
There are simpler ways to settle dispute. Lets not resort to “I’ll sue you”, “See-ya -in court”. Try talking it out, if that doesn’t work then read more posts- u’ll find more solutions.
Ps:plz send across the solution to Global warming via e-mail to me. Scientists and Researchers in my country are still struggling with this problem here.
Cheers!!
Mannheim’s approach wasn’t very good, if they had told you why they want
the page and if they had kindly asked I would have said yes to them.
As Debra Steen mentioned, there are so many other cities of Mannheim in the US, why don’t you offer one of these cities the Twitter page ?
I would suggest you contact the EFF (electronic frontier foundation) , they have branches all over the world. secondly they can help you legally, that’s what they do.
Potential they can offer you a legal representation for free!!!. like they’ve done in a lot of previous cases. And even if they won’t represent you for free they still can help you in the legal process issuing a friend of the court documents on your behalf,
and give you legal advice regarding your specific situation.
If they back you up, you will not have to worry about the money, only about justice.
Secondly they can give your case/company international exposure, which is priceless regardless of the outcome of the case.
http://www.eff.org/
http://www.eff.org/issues/international
If city of Manheim wants twitter name “manheim” then they should approach you properly. From your article, I understood that you are not behaving or posting on any thing on behalf of Manheim, then why do they have objection??
This is not fair and you should fight for justice if they decide to go by legal system. Nobody can steel our freedom on Internet forcefully.
My suggestion to Manheim city people is to discuss with you and come to an agreement on this rather than forcing you to quit.
Pigs don’t know Pig Stink…
Can anybody simply use the name of a city just like that. ithink we must withdraw that.
Hm I am not sure about this one but I must say I find it odd that you chose this name. Why didn’t you choose your company name ‘Mikogo’ It does kind of appear that you are trying to get something out of using a town’s name as a tritter account which in all fairness can be described as spamming. I would gracefully give Mannheim their name. Bye the way – in Domain names – I was told it is not legitamate in Germany to use the towns name no matter how you combine it. Excellent product.
Kind regards
Tomas
Life is too short to get tangled up in the misguided actions of people who only think about themselves.
You don’t have time or money to waste on fighting over a name. There are greater things you can accomplish through this situation that will help more people over all.
The most important portion of this issue is that the leaders of Mannheim have not thought this through. Instead of taking a positive approach to the issue they decided to engage in battle from the start. This leads me to believe that they are not the sharpest pencils in the box and leaves me wondering what other things have been going on that the residents of Mannheim don’t know about. I am also wondering if the true leaders of Mannheim have any knowledge of this or if it is the antics of a Mannheim minion? Leaders of cities, towns, countries and nations fail to remember that they were elected to serve the people not the other way around.
I would have to think that someone with a high leadership position can see this and would be open to discussion. If all of the leaders of Mannheim are on the same page then I feel sorry for all the residents and business owners in Mannheim. A message needs to get out outlining the entire ordeal which should provoke the people to look closer at the leaders of Mannheim and question what they are doing to promote them. This negative action is tarnishing the reputation of the people who live, work and have businesses in Mannheim and the leaders are completely responsible.
You have a distinct advantage by taking a positive approach to this issue instead of lowering yourself to their level by jumping into the legal snake pit where the only winners are the lawyers and that is the power of the people. At the time of this writing you had over 200 responses to your cry for help. If each of those people carried a message to 10 more people and they then carried the message to 10 more and on and on, the power becomes even greater. The message carried by the people can be positive for the leaders of Mannheim or negative. It is their choice. Their initial move was a fight and your response is giving them a choice in return. You have power in the internet and your product which touches thousands of people everyday. A simple link can direct people from all over the world to the message.
- Have you talked to anyone at the city? If so what is their leadership status?
- Do they have any power or influence?
- Are there any leadership elections coming up? If so who is running against the person(s) who are making these idiotic decision?
It is the leaders of Mannheim who are causing this and the people of Mannheim should be up in arms at how the leaders are hurting them.
As I mentioned in the beginning, a legal battle is complete waste of time and money and should only be used as the very last resort. You are better off steering your frustrations to building your business, taking the higher road and helping the people of Mannheim. It will bring you more satisfaction long term and you will attain more people in your network which will relate to more business in the future.
Best of luck to you.
[...] the founder of popular screen-sharing app Mikogo shared with the world that he was threatened to be sued by the city of Mannheim if he does not stop using his twitter [...]
Why don’t we all open another account with the mannheim extension, just like Mark did? Let’s see if those bureaurats will fight all of us.
We MUST take a stand here…..
So, are they – or have they ever – also sued the Mannheim Steamroller musical group? mannheimsteamroller.com
The town Mannheim in Germany is not the only one, which uses the name. This name occurs several time. Just make a search in the Internet and you will find for instance:
The Hungarian-born sociologist and educator Karl Mannheim (1893-1947) explored the role of the intellectual in political and social reconstruction. He also wrote on the sociology of knowledge.
I strongly doubt, that the names of cities can be protected to get used by others anyway. To me it looks like a criminal action. Somebody misuses laws, to narrow the freedom of others.
For the officials at Mannheim it is a shame, if they should be so stupid to take such actions. We should make it public to the global internet community and everybody should send a nice email to the authorities of Mannheim, so that they feel happy, to have drawn so much negative attention to their town.
We must take actions, if authorities try to take control of the internet. Otherwise we get a situation like in China and other dictatroships.
regards
Ronnard
Hello,
I wrote an email to the university at Mannheim, asking them for support against this shameful behaviour of their major. We should send emails to all public institutions in Mannheim.
regards
Ronnard
I see the Nazis are alive and kicking in Mannheim!
Vadim Berman on January 23, 2010 at 2:08 am said what I would have said. I am not sure they can look intelligent if they proceed and getting it into the light of day should slow them down.
Jim
It does seem to be rather pretentious to assume that a Mannheim resident can virtually appropriate the name of the city for exclusive personal use.
If Microsoft tried do do something like this, the entire net community would all be up in arms about it.
I think the best bet would be to graciously donate the name to the city, and for the city to respond with a mayoral lunch and/or a letter of thanks.
Unless the use of a Geographical place is banned in twitter names or you guys planned to use the name of the town with some kind of deception in mind, both of which I think are not the case, then stick to your guns and don’t be bullied. However it is worth contacting the person, and I am sure it is probably one person that is pushing this, and find out what is the real problem. Surely it cannot just be the use of the name? Could it? Settle the dispute and don’t involve extensive expensive legal help to do it. No one wins then either. You might keep the name but you will be a lot poorer for it. Great blog great product. All power to Mikogo.
Greetings to the Mikogo Team
My don’t we live in a free world.
I applaud your stand and wish you well.
Love Albert’s idea about each one of us opening an account with a mannheim extension – that would raise the teutonic heckles. Lol.
Obviously their bureaucratic team has little to do to occupy their time or maybe they are just short of cash & see you as a likely target to add to the coffers.
I suggest if all else fails have a street march and bring the people of the town together to show where solidarity lies.
Be kind to your enemies as justice will prevail in the end.
Your service is great & for people involved in smaller businesses and is a great communication tool.
Keep up the great work.
Rob
I am sorry to hear that Mannheim has taken the stance they have- a polite call to Mark would have been the way to go to reach an amicable solution. Mikogo is a great tool/product which I use in my work- you guys deserve better than this. It’s easy to say you should pick up and move your company to another town- that would be the ultimate revenge.
There’s no way the city can win this, it’s first come first serve, they should have started a twitter account first! Don’t understand why they can’t just choose another name.
Also, who would want to follow a city on Twitter?
Mark, you definately doing the right thing, don’t let them push you around!
I have Prepaid Legal Services for this and the same for small business here in America. I understand that the Founder of PPL got the idea for PPL because in some European countries . . . legal insurance . . . is carried by 80% of the citizen’s there. Is that the case with Germany. Sounds like a good time to use their services.
You’ve got the right spirit. We’re behind you.
Change your username, and have an foreign user, let’s say from Japan register it immediately; see if they will call the Interpol
Well did they ask mano to use the name to get “Mannenheim” “Home of Manno”? from what i read its sounds like a cool city, bt seriously… I think its a publicity stunt or something. So lil wayne can bring a civil action against me for using “young moola baby” as my user and display name on chat rooms. Thats just crazy.
You should give the name Mannheim back to the city, where it belongs.
I don’t understand the fuss, that YOU are making about this.
Would any of the US guys here be ok, if I created a twitter account “NewYork” or “UnitedStates”? Think about it, this would be weird behaviour!
Change your name to “MarkInMannheim” or anything else, that pleases you.
And stop whining.
Dear friends,
a brand name has a worth here in Germany – and the cities have a right for theri brand name, because it is handled here in Germany like that – i had to give up a domain with mannheim in it, because the city wanted it like that – and I am settled in Mannheim!
So, guys, good luck!
Sounds like a legal team is trying to justify their existence – ridiculous!
One would rather have hoped that the city fathers would have been glad that someone doing something useful felt positive enough about the city to use it as a handle.
My name is Ladies’ Hood Journal and fortuantely Ladies’ Home Journal; there is room in the digital world for similarity in usernames. Keep fighting to hold your corner in the sky.
Sincerely,
Ladies’ Hood Journal Reporting from Twitter
Hey, yeah, Sanjay, because you know that a town is actually a brand name. In fact, just the other day I went to go pick up a bottle of Mannheim at the shop, when I found the weirdest thing! There was a box of soap also called Manheim!!!
You gave up your domain too soon, my friend. If you had waited until this happened to Mikogo, who actually have a healthy pair down there, maybe you would still have it.
And to people who say this isn’t important, of course it is! What if you owned a saurkraut frankfurter shop called Mannheim Frankfuters & Saurkraut, and you wanted to make a website?????
And last, I suggest that everyone in this forum go and make a twitter account called Mannheim_221 etc. That would be a pretty awesome way to shove it in their faces.
I hope you keep your blog posts up so a year from now when your agreement runs out and they try to sue again, you will have the starting word on big government takeover.
Just tell them that the Twitter name is a direct reference to the band Mannheim Steamroller and that you are a die hard supporter of such band. The fact that your company resides in Mannheim, Germany is beside the point. However, as Paul (Jan 22) mentioned, offer them a deal to buy the Twitter name from you. I think, in the judge’s eyes, it would be an amicable solution, as you’d be calling their bluff. They’re just mad because Mark thought of it first. I’d counter-sue!!!
[...] und wartet sogar mit Fernbedienbarkeit des Rechners auf. Im Rahmen der (mittlerweile beigelegten) Auseinandersetzung um den Twitter-Account @mannheim hat Mikogo einige Publicity bekommen. Es wird also Zeit, den Dienst genau unter die Lupe zu nehmen. [...]
I think that the best idea would be to cede your twitter account to the city of Mannheim in exchange for a certain amount of money.
We, Mikogo users don’t pay you, so this would be a great chance to support the development of your software. Then, you can open a new account on Twitter under the name of…Mikogo.
The city certainly has a point. Their approach is childish. They contact and threaten you to give up a Twitter Account name? If it was a generous letter written by an official asking to volunteer and give that name for the sake of the city, I am sure it would have been theirs by now. There is no reason for why you shouldn’t repeal.